Vlogs

Suzi Mirgani [00:00:00 – 00:00:45]

So today we’ll be talking about a new research initiative launched by the Center for International and Regional Studies at Georgetown University in Qatar titled America’s Game in the Middle East: The 2027 Basketball World Cup in Qatar. The project actually builds on CIRS’s previous research initiatives in the realm of sports and society. We have multiple past research initiatives, including Sports, Politics and Society in the Middle East. Football in the Middle East. Building a legacy: Qatar FIFA World Cup 2022 and most recently Qatar’s World Cup Goals: Moving from the Periphery to the Center. Information about all of these projects can be found on the CIRS website at cirs.georgetown.edu.

Mirgani [00:00:46 – 00:01:00]

So today we’ll be talking to the project’s faculty lead, Danyel Reiche who is a Visiting Research Fellow at the Center for International and Regional Studies and Visiting Associate Professor at Georgetown University in Qatar. So welcome, Daniel.

Danyel Reiche [00:02:00 – 00:03:00]

Hi, Suzi.

Mirgani [00:01:03 – 00:01:16]

Hi. So just to kick us off on what this project is about, can you let us know why the International Basketball Federation, otherwise known as FIBA, selected Qatar as the host?

Reiche [00:01:17 – 00:02:09]

Yeah, I think there is a push towards Asia and sports in general and basketball specifically. So this will be the third Men’s Basketball World Cup in a row in Asia. It was in 2019 in China, and in 2023 in Indonesia, Philippines, and Japan and in 2027 it will be in Qatar. And this is the largest growth market, not just for basketball, also in other sport. 60% of the global population lives in Asia and in the past as basketball, men’s basketball was dominated by the Americas and by Europe. And now Asia is catching up. So with the Basketball World Cup in Qatar there will have been, in the history of men’s basketball, twenty World Cups, ten of them in the Americas, five in Europe and five in Asia.

Mirgani [00:02:10 – 00:02:18]

That’s fantastic. And why would Qatar be interested in hosting the World Cup, the Basketball World Cup?

Reiche [00:02:19 – 00:04:02]

So there are political and sports specific reasons. Politically, Qatar is a small state that aims to overcome its invisibility, that it had. Not anymore. That it had as a small state. It wants to attract tourists, investors, and have influence in international affairs. And Qatar has developed sports as one of its key niche areas to achieve these objectives. Of course, main focus is on providing an increasing number of countries with its energy, with gas. Then it promotes a global media network, Al Jazeera and is very active in diplomacy, as we could just see in 2023 when it had (mediated) to (help) release Israeli hostages or get kidnapped Ukrainian children. So but sports is like one of four niche areas for Qatar. Other small states have niche areas. Dubai – tourism, Norway – humanitarian efforts and so on. So Qatar is just doing more of the same as they did in the past. I mean, they hosted many other sporting events in the past was the highlight of the FIFA Men’s Football World Cup in 2022. But this was not the end. So it’s, I would even argue it’s now more of the same. Formula 1 is in next ten years in Qatar and and now the Men’s Basketball World Cup in 2027. Then when we look at sport specific reasons, certainly basketball is after soccer/football is the second most globalized sport, and Qatar wants to build up a profile to host one day, the Summer Olympic Games.

Mirgani [00:04:3 – 00:04:20]

So we know about the history of football in Qatar. We’ve spoken about this quite a lot in our previous projects. But what’s the state of basketball in Qatar? What’s Qatar’s relationship to basketball? Is there basketball federations here?

Reiche [00:04:21 – 00:06:33]

Yeah, there is. And basketball has been very important in the process of Qatar becoming a Olympic nation. So Qatar is a young country that became independent in 1971. In 1979, it formed a National Olympic Committee. And in 1980s this was approved by the International Olympic Committee. In 1981, which was important, the IOC president Samaranch at that time, visited for the first time Qatar. So to become a member of the International Olympic Committee, a National Olympic Committee needs to have at least five members that have been recognized by international federations. And basketball was one of them. Football was another one, for example. So in the 1970s, in total 6 national federations were established, basketball, football, handball and volleyball, and athletics and table tennis. And so basketball was one of the reasons why Qatar could become a member of the Olympic family in 1980. Then Qatar did not make much headlines because of remarkable achievements. 2006 qualified for the only time for the Men’s World Cup but never qualified for the Women’s World Cup. The women made global headlines in 2014 when they forfeit the game at the Asian Games because they were not allowed to play with hijab. But since then, the FIBA has fortunately lifted the discriminatory ban of the hijab in 2017, which is now also, I believe, a very important step to make basketball in Qatar, in the Gulf, in the Middle East more popular amongst women. Of course, basketball is also very important in some migrant communities. For example, we have lots of people from the Philippines in Qatar. In the Philippines it’s the number one sport, basketball. And there’s also a Philippine Basketball League, for example, in the country.

Mirgani [00:06:35,570 – 00:06:58]

So even though basketball is played all around the world, as you’ve just mentioned, in the Philippines, also, it’s really largely an American game. And it even features in the title of this project, right. It’s the American game in the Middle East. So what kind of opportunities does this allow for the connections, engagements between the U.S. and the Middle East?

Reiche [00:06:59 – 00:09:30]

Yeah, it’s as American as soccer, football, for example, British. It was invented in Springfield, Massachusetts, and it became known and popular in the Middle East through missionaries. And one example of that is that I worked before in Lebanon for 12 years at the American University of Beirut. And there is evidence that Lebanon, as that basketball came to Lebanon through American missionaries who brought the game to the Syrian Protestant college as AUB was named at the beginning of the 20th century. And from AUB, Syrian Protestant college at that time. It spread then throughout the country. And we have similar stories in other countries in the region. And but there are always the three ‘M’ so there are missionaries, and there’s military and merchants who also brought like sports to the region. And then if we look recently, there is big interest in the NBA in the Middle East. There was recently in Abu Dhabi in 2023, a pre-season game of two NBA teams. And Harlem Globetrotters, it’s like a show team in basketball. They have been performing in the region. And interestingly, in 2017, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, right at the time when Saudi started to open up. So there’s a lot of evidence how the game came from America to the region. But I think it’s also for the region an opportunity to engage with the U.S. because it’s the only American game popular in Qatar and the region. So the four big sports in the U.S. are, American football, baseball, and ice hockey and basketball and the other three sports, is hardly any presence in the region. For example, we have one ice rink in Qatar, but so basketball, really provides opportunities for engagement and interaction. For example, also for students could have exchanges.

Mirgani [00:9:31 – 00:09:37]

Exactly and basketball is really popular on American university campuses. And Georgetown has also a strong basketball team.

Reiche [00:09:37 – 00:12:05]

Yeah. And I mean, some people say nobody would know Qatar without the FIFA World Cup. And one could also say not everybody would know Georgetown without its basketball program. Of course, Georgetown is well known for its academic merits, but basketball made a major contribution to make Georgetown a national brand in the U.S. and beyond. So the men’s basketball team is featured on national TV, and everybody who is reading the sports section would like read about the Georgetown team. And Georgetown men’s team plays in the same arena as the professional NBA team in Washington, D.C. plays. It’s now named Capital One arena. It always had it was named by a sponsor and it has a capacity of 20,000. And just like recently when I was spending a week on main campus, I went to two matches which were attended by around 10,000 people each. And so Georgetown became national champion in 1984. It made it, a couple of times to the final four to the March Madness. Although the last time in 2006, which is a while ago. But also the women’s basketball attracts larger audiences and so it’s super important, but also for one other reason.  Georgetown was considered to be a white academic community until the years after World War II. And basketball really had to better engage with the city because the largest ethnic group in Washington D.C., are African Americans and Georgetown, was also one of the first teams that had a black coach in 1972. So it had Georgetown transforming into a more diverse community. And here in Qatar, of course, our students also play basketball and both male students and female students. So it’s one of a few team sports where we have teams in both and basketball different to football operates in Education City and in a mixed-gender environment. So I could also go to a match for example and support our students.

Mirgani [00:12:07 – 00:12:18]

That’s great. So for this project specifically, what are you thinking? What are the pillars that are going to guide this project? What kind of initiatives are you going to have under it?

Reiche [00:12:19 – 00:12:33]

Yeah, I think, of course, our main objective is to have an academic output, as we had in previous sports projects. So I put them here in front of me, that were two books that were the outcome of sports projects (shows the Sports and Society and Football in the Middle East books) we were running in CIRS.

Mirgani [00:12:34 – 00:12:37]

One of which you are a co-editor right?

Reiche [00:12:37 – 00:14:24]

Yes. Of this one (points to the Sports and Society book). And so and CIRS operates after a well-established model so we gather experts, local and international experts and we discuss research gaps and in one meeting and later on a later meeting then so topics are distributed. And in a later meeting we would discuss papers which will finally turn into a book publication or in a special issue of an academic journal. And different to the previous projects we will not just approach people. We also have a call for paper to have give really everybody the opportunity who has interest and knowledge to make a contribution. But also what we learned from the FIFA World Cup project is that we want to go beyond that and also contribute to constant knowledge production. And we will do so with this vlog where we are just now producing the first episode and and the lecture series. And so we hope that by doing so we can inform the community of scholars, but also practitioners, like journalists who are interested in the topic, knowledge and who are willing to share that. And so by doing so, we hope that we can contribute to a better understanding of the role of basketball in Qatar, in the Middle East, but also the role basketball plays for U.S. engagement with this part of the world.

Mirgani [00:14:25 – 00:14:40]

Thank you, Danyel, for that very interesting overview of this research initiative and anyone who wants to find out more about it, it’s on our website cirs.georgetown.edu. Thank you, Danyel.

Reiche [00:14:40 – 00:14:40]

Thank you.

[END OF THE VLOG]

 

Danyel Reiche [00:00:00 – 00:01:13]

Welcome, everybody. My name is Danyel Reiche. It gives me great pleasure to welcome today, Professor Robert Emmett Curran, a Professor Emeritus of history at Georgetown University, where he served as a faculty member for 32 years. Professor Curran is the author of three books on Georgetown University’s history. The first one on the first 100 years of Georgetown’s existence after it was established in 1789, titled “From Academy to University.” The second one titled “The Quest for Excellence,” covering the period 1889-1964, and the third one “The Rise to Prominence, 1964-1989.” Professor Curran also published an article on the history of basketball at Georgetown University titled “The Rise and Decline of Georgetown University Basketball in the Thompson Era, 1972-2017.” But basketball is also featured in his books on the history of Georgetown University, particularly in the second and third book. Thank you very much, Emmett, for joining us today.

 

Robert Emmett Curran [00:01:14 – 00:01:16]

Happy to be here with you.

 

Reiche [00:01:17 – 00:01:30]

My very first question is why were you interested in studying basketball? Were you always interested in basketball or did you become interested in basketball because it’s so important for Georgetown University?

 

Curran [00:01:31 – 00:02:34]

Well, I must say that I was interested in basketball before I came to Georgetown, before I joined the faculty. And in 1972, that happened to be the very same year that John Thompson came to Georgetown as its basketball coach. And indeed, Thompson, one of the first things he did was to approach some of us on the faculty about becoming, basically, the scorers and recorders for the basketball games that we’d have on campus at that time. So I spent the first several years at Georgetown working on the scorers desk at Georgetown’s home games. So my involvement with Georgetown basketball started almost immediately.

 

Reiche [00:02:34 – 00:03:02]

Awesome. So everybody, I mean without exaggeration, I think everybody in the U.S. knows Georgetown University, it’s a national brand. But more than that, I think, internationally also Georgetown is very well known and basketball is one of the reasons. So how would you say, how did basketball help Georgetown in becoming a national or maybe even international brand?

 

 

Curran [00:03:03 – 00:07:56]

Well, I think, basketball had a good deal to do with Georgetown’s rise to prominence. I think it was one of the  key ingredients to Georgetown more or less making it to the national and international maps. And it’s interesting how that happened. As I, to explain in the article and volume three of my history, John Thompson’s hiring came about as a result of Georgetown’s attempt to greatly improve its image, both with the local community, which was a black majority community. Washington, D.C., by the 1970s was a majority black city. Georgetown itself had become, particularly since the Civil War, kind of a white enclave within this majority black city that was fairly isolated from the larger city. It very much was still within its southern oriented tradition. And in the early 70s, by the early 70s, Georgetown was trying to break out of that image. It had been finally caught up in the revolution that the 60s represented for racial justice, and it wanted very much to diversify its student body. It had not had any black students until the post WW two period. In fact, the largest school in the university, the College of Arts and Sciences, had not had a black student until the early 60s. So just a decade before Thompson came to Georgetown, Georgetown was still not integrated. So when Georgetown had such a terrible season in 1971/72; that the coach resigned and they started a search for a new basketball coach. Charlie Deacon, who was the Dean of Admissions at that time, the very person who was trying to diversify Georgetown racially and aggressively recruit black applicants to Georgetown. Charlie approached Father Robert Henley, who was the president of Georgetown at the time, and said “I think it’d be a wonderful thing if Georgetown could have a black basketball coach. It would do more for changing our image locally and nationally than anything else I can think of.” And so the President thought this was a great idea. He appointed Charlie Deacon to head up the search committee and they basically went out and recruited John Thompson, who was coaching, at the time, at a local Catholic high school. So they persuaded Thompson to become a candidate, and the search committee, naturally enough, selected Thompson. So that was how he happened to come to Georgetown. They said “You know, we’ll be very happy if you can get us a couple of appearances in the National Invitational Tournament.” The NIT, which by that time had become the second tournament to the NCAA at that point. But they were setting the bar really low for Thompson, if he could do that. But Georgetown had already been even in the NIT once in the last 20 years, so it wasn’t asking much, but what Thompson delivered over the next 20 years was something far in excess of what they were hoping he might do. He really put Georgetown on the, not only on the map as a basketball power, but he really, as I said, was a factor in Georgetown’s rise to prominence nationally and internationally.

 

Reiche [00:07:57 – 00:08:49]

Yeah, and to highlight 1984 winning the national championship. And you talked about now the role of basketball for Georgetown to become a more diverse place, and particularly integrating the African American community, as a majority population at that time of the city, into university operations. How about gender? When did like women’s basketball become more prominent and play a bigger role? I mean, they’re not playing in Capital One arena as the men’s team. They play on campus in the McDonough gymnasium, but still like a big hall which fits like two and a half thousand people. I’ve been there myself to matches, so a great atmosphere, many students watching and supporting. So what can you tell us about women’s basketball?

 

Curran [00:08:50 – 00:12:40]

 

Well, as Georgetown did not… It’s the largest school, the College of Arts and Sciences, which is where the majority of the undergraduates would have been in the 70s. Georgetown did not integrate its college gender wise, until 1968. So a few years after they admitted the first black, black males to the college, they integrated the college to become co-ed. And it’s interesting that initially they wanted to just have a very limited number of women in the college. 25, I think was their initial quota. Well, almost immediately, that went out the window, so that within a few years, the females were almost a majority within the college, and that meant that they had to begin intercollegiate sports for women as well. That was the time that Title IX went through in the early 70s. And so I was on the athletic board at that particular time, and I remember we had to decide how we were going to implement Title IX which we’re calling, basically, for equality for women and men’s sports. So we decided that we had to be, we had to have an equal number of major men’s sports, and major women’s sports. So I can remember when we decided we’d have two each and for men It was quite easy. Georgetown had dropped intercollegiate football, so that wasn’t a possibility. So it was going to be basketball and track. Georgetown had a very strong history in track and field. But for the women, it wasn’t at all clear what should be the major sports for them. And I can remember, again, track became one. First of all, since they performed together, that was easy to implement. But the second sport, we weren’t at all sure what would become the second major women’s sport. And I remember we decided to allocate our remaining scholarships between two sports for women, volleyball and basketball, and to see which one emerged over the years. Well, at the time, women’s volleyball was much better than women’s basketball at Georgetown. But over time, that changed, and women’s basketball became the second major sport for women. And they had some… and by the late 80s, they were becoming very competitive in the Big East, and had some success that lasted into the early 90s. So I mean they had their own brief period of glory, if you might say.

 

Reiche [00:12:41 – 00:13:05]

So before we, the book stops at 1989, because we maybe in the final part of the conversation, talk about contemporary issues. What else maybe you would like to add from like the second and third book where you were talking about basketball? Is there anything else we should know about the history of basketball at Georgetown?

 

Curran [00:13:06 – 00:15:55]

The peak for the Thompson era at Georgetown was certainly in the early 80s when they had the teams led by Patrick Ewing and Sleepy Floyd. And you can argue that Georgetown came very close to winning three straight NCAA championships. But in 1982, their first appearance in the NCAA finals, they could have beat North Carolina. They lost by two. They lost by a point. But only because a North Carolina player, Georgetown came down with a few seconds left to try to win the game. Georgetown, a North Carolina player was so out of position, James Worthy, that the Georgetown player thought he was a teammate and he inadvertently passed the ball to him rather than him setting up Sleepy Floyd, who was ready to take what could very well have been the winning shot. So they lost that heartbreaker. The next year they beat Houston to win their only NCAA championship. The fight on this in 85, Ewings final year, they played Villanova. And the Villanova coach, Massimi.. Massimino, remarked before the game that he said Georgetown was supposed to have perhaps the greatest college team that had ever been put together. So Massimino said “Well, I think if we could shoot 50%, we might have a chance to beat Georgetown.” Well, they ended up shooting 79%. They missed one shot in the second half. And that was a shot that was brought by Patrick Ewing. It was just surreal, their ability to score on that particular night. So again, Georgetown lost what could have been its third consecutive championship by two points. So I think that was certainly a remarkable run that Georgetown has sadly never come close to replicating.

 

Reiche [00:15:54 – 00:16:47]

Yeah. When we look at recent years, positive headlines on sport at Georgetown are coming from other sports like soccer, like lacrosse. I think the last time the men’s basketball team participated in the Final Four was in 2006. Ironically, that year I was a Visiting Assistant Professor on main campus. That was my first faculty job. And, so, but this is now again, 17 years ago. And now Georgetown mainly makes headlines like in March of this last year when Coach Patrick Ewing, who was already mentioned a couple of times by you as a player, but he also became a coach when he was fired. So what are your thoughts on the decline of Georgetown men’s basketball in the last years? And do you have any hope for the future?

 

Curran [00:16:48 – 00:18:31]

Yes, I do have hope for the future. I think they have a very fine coach in Ed Cooley, who is in his first year having replaced Patrick. It’s, you know, there are I think a number of reasons, but things Patrick just wasn’t able to recruit players that would really be capable of competing at the level that they need to compete at. I think Cooley should be more successful in competing and apparently, he has already begun to recruit for next year some very promising newcomers. So I am hopeful. But it’s, it has been over, as you mentioned, 2006 was the last time Georgetown got to the Final Four. It’s been a long bitter stretch in which Georgetown, which in the first 20 years of the Big East, 30, 25 years, you could say, nearly dominated. Was certainly one of the top powers in the conference. And it’s really sad to see what’s happened over the last 5 to 10 years where they’ve really sadly become a bottom feeder in the Big East. But I think with Cooley there’s hope of turning that around.

 

Reiche [00:18:32 – 00:19:06]

Okay. It’s always good to end with something positive and with hope. Thank you very much. Emmett, I have to say, I tremendously enjoyed the conversation, but also reading your work because one cannot just learn about basketball at Georgetown but also about the Georgetown history in total and the role Georgetown basketball played particularly for diversifying the community. I think this is a very important contribution. Thank you very, very, very much. And all the best to you.

 

Curran [00:19:06 – 00:19:09]

All the best to you. Thanks for having me.

 

[END OF THE VLOG]

Danyel Reiche [00:00:01 – 00:00:54]

Welcome, everybody. My name is Danyel Reiche, and I’m going to talk today to Amal Mohamed Saleh about her career in women’s basketball and Qatar’s role in lifting the discriminatory hijab ban in international games. Amal is a 3×3 Basketball Referee licensed by FIBA, the International Basketball Federation. She has played 16 years for the national women’s 5×5 team. She holds a Bachelor’s degree in Sport Sciences from Qatar University and a Master’s degree from Hamad Bin Khalifa University, our neighbors here in Education City, in Sports Management. She’s also working as a consultant for the Omani Basketball Federation and, together with her husband, runs a sports academy in Muscat. Hi, Amal.

 

Amal Mohamed Saleh [00:00:55 – 00:0:57]

Hi, Danyel. How are you? How are you doing?

 

Reiche [00:00:58 – 00:01:38]

I’m very well. So, in 2017, the International Basketball Federation finally lifted its ban on playing international basketball with a hijab. So Qatari women played a role in this process. So, let’s start discussing what happened at the 2014 Asian Games in South Korea, where you were the captain of the team, and you and your teammates had already entered the court and got ready to play Mongolia. Can you tell us what happened then?

 

Saleh [00:01:40 – 00:02:20]

Suddenly they tell us that we, the ladies who were wearing hijab they cannot play. So, we asked why? They said because this is a rule from the FIBA. The rule is saying that you have to wear only something like five cm here, until that. But the [rest of the head] should not be covered. They said you only have to remove the hijab, the long sleeves and everything is fine, but that the problem is with the hijab. So, after that we ask why? What? What is the problem? They said we don’t know, but this is the rule. We [said] okay, the rule can be changed because we cannot go higher. After we go to the GCC and Arab games, we have to go higher to the Asian and after that, the World Cup. But the problem, we cannot go higher or professional in that level.

 

Reiche [00:02:22 – 00:02:47]

So, you could play in hijab at the GCC games. You could play in hijab at the Arab Games. And then the problem occurred at the Asian Games, where the reason that was given was that those games have to happen according to FIBA rules, and the FIBA rules were no hijab is allowed. So no reasons were given to you at this occasion. Did you later learn about reasons? What is so bad about playing with hijab?

 

Saleh [00:02:48 – 00:03:24]

Yeah. We asked the FIBA, the ministry there and all, we asked them what is the problem with that rule? Maybe, we said, maybe they don’t know about hijab or something like this, but we have to discuss with them, convince them why they are refusing the hijab because there is a plenty of females [in Asia], especially in Asia They are wearing, most of them are Muslim, and they are wearing hijab. So, we cannot go higher, as I mentioned before, so they said no, maybe there is a problem or something like that, but we think, from Qatar and other girls from other countries, they said no, they never see it. How to play with hijab, that’s all.

 

Reiche [00:03:25 – 00:03:31]

And could you explain why it’s no problem at all to play with hijab?

 

Saleh [00:03:32 – 00:04:07]

Yeah, because we compare our game to the basketball to the other games [that are] a little bit harder. Like football, handball, jujitsu, judo. That’s games [where] you have to hold them and [physically interact with the players]. Or even taekwondo, you have to hold them and grab them down. Okay, that one is grabbing also. But in our basketball, in each touch it’s a foul. So where is the problem or what is the harm that happens to the basketball. They said no. No one speak with us in related to the hijab that basketball is making harm for them.

 

Reiche [00:04:08 – 00:04:43]

So, this debate on doing sports with hijab did not just occur in FIBA although FIBA was one of the last to lift the ban. So the debate was also happening in FIFA, for example, and so what’s your view on maybe people from Western countries who are not much exposed to Muslim culture, why is it important for women like you to play sport with hijab?

 

 

 

 

 

Saleh [00:04:44 – 00:05:39]

Because when you see like other countries, like the strong countries like Egypt, Morocco, when they are choosing the girl, they only choosing the girl who is not wearing a hijab. and related to the Gulf, also same thing, they try to choose the girls who are not wearing hijab. But you have a candidate or player, with the professional way, wearing hijab. That people, they are going to exclude them from the national team. But we have a right to play with the hijab. Okay, you have to see my playing, my sport, what I am doing, not about my religion or what I am wearing from the hijab. If there is any harm or you have an incident before that has happened, we can discuss related to. But there is no incidents happening. So that was making, a confusion with us, and ladies who was excluded from the national team they are asking “Why I am excluded because of my hijab?” But this is not related to the religion, it’s related to sport, and sport, you know, don’t have any religion. All of the religious they are playing sports.

 

Reiche [00:05:41 – 00:06:13]

So, when preparing for our conversation, I found out that the motto of the 2014 Asian Games was “Diversity shines here,” which is kind of ironic given what happened then with your team. So, after the Asian Games 2014, #FibaAllowHijab and #right2wear became trending hashtags. And there was a campaign to lift the ban. Can you tell us about the campaign to lift the hijab ban in international basketball?

 

Saleh [00:06:14 – 00:07:20]

Yeah. After the 2014, what happened to us, we didn’t play any game related to the Asian Games. We returned back to Qatar. We start doing, like, a campaign. A lot of people from all around the world, they come and support us. And they said we have to [prove] for them, through the campaign, that hijab is not harming any lady who is playing basketball. So, we did, in around three years, we go around all of the countries like France, USA, Turkey, even in the Gulf, and we support each other. There is also like famous players, like LeBron James and Ibtihaj Muhammad, who supported us in hashtag in Twitter related to this. They said “No, let them play and show us” Because the ladies with the hijab, they cannot show how they can play because most of them they were excluded. Now thank God after three years with these campaigns, they change the rule and the FIBA also, they came to Qatar and they see it. And that one the support it was from His Highness Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad and His Highness also Sheikh Saud Al Thani also Her Highness Sheikha Moza, and support from the Women Committee.

 

 

 

Reiche [00:07:21 – 00:08:04]

Yeah. So, finally in 2017, the ban was lifted. So, when we talk about obstacles for women’s basketball in Qatar, in the Middle East, then this ban of the hijab was an external obstacle. But there are also internal barriers for women’s sport, which you have studied because in your Master’s thesis, you were investigating the low participation of female athletes from the Gulf in the Olympic Games. Could you give us some insights? How did you conduct your research and what were the main results of your work?

 

Saleh [00:08:05 – 00:09:07]

Yeah, it’s not like they are not participating in the Olympics. No, the number of the medals, even the number of medals, there is no medals related to the GCC. They go to participate, but they don’t have any medals related. The kind of the camps they are going, the kind of the tournament that’s playing, even for us like GCC who are playing basketball, we are not going higher related also to the hijab. So you know sometimes you play with these girls or others. You cannot to play with France, or you can say with the U.S., you don’t have any campaign related to them. So I started doing this one and we wanted to know, it’s not even just basketball, in all games. Why we are not taking the GCC girls or Arab girls going to other countries like Western, American, UK, Portuguese, to play with and to see how they can play and understand the dynamics of playing any sports. And that, from that competing, at least we can go to playing in the Olympics and at least we having 1 or 3 of medals.

 

 

Reiche [00:09:08 – 00:09:22]

Yeah, so the focus was lack of success not lack in participation. So, can you tell us something about cultural barriers? Is this like something that was an important finding of your work?

 

Saleh [00:09:23 – 00:10:08]

The finding, when I found the results, of all of them they have the same barrier. It’s only family support, governmental support, even you have the supporting from the duty that they doing because, you know, the ladies in here, they are full time instead of, if you compare it to the men’s basketball, they are having the full time. But the woman, they don’t. Part time they are doing. Like the basketball for them it’s like a hobby.  We say no, this is not a hobby. It’s a job. It’s playing. It’s like something professional. So that comparison I found it in all GCC. And we wanted to have at least a solution of that with the sport for ladies. It’s manner of number one for me, instead of having anything else.

 

Reiche [00:10:09 – 00:10:21]

So the lifting of the ban allowed you, and also another Qatari woman, Alaa Suleiman, to become FIBA licensed referees.

 

Saleh [00:10:21 – 00:10:22]

Right

 

Reiche [00:10:22 – 00:10:26]

How did you get the idea to become a referee?

 

Saleh [00:10:27 – 00:11:21]

Actually, because they said even if you wearing a hijab, you will not become a [licensed referee]. We ask okay, if I am playing basketball, okay, we understand that. But if I am a referee, even then, what is the damage related to hijab? They were surprised they said “No one ask us this question.” Okay, so the referee also she [is not allowed] to wear a hijab also? They said “This is the rule.” But she’s not playing. Who put this rule? Maybe the rule is very old and it’s time to change it. They said “Yeah, that we have to start working on.” After 2017, I was a referee since 2008, After 2017, they start training me and, to take that FIBA license with hijab. I was there, the only ladies who was there, and the other one Jordanian also I remember now one Jordanian also, she was wearing a hijab. She had the opportunity to go with me and have the license in 5×5 or 3×3.

 

Reiche [00:11:22 – 00:11:58]

Yeah. So, since 2008, you were refereeing local matches and then getting the license also allowed you to become a referee in international matches. So, we talked about barriers and you pointed out the support from families, from government, but also there is difference between male and female sport. That one is more a hobby and the other is turning into a profession. So, how important is it also that women take roles such as, refereeing and coaching to motivate girls to play basketball?

 

Saleh [00:11:59 – 00:12:44]

After this changing happened, that was a big change since the FIBA started playing basketball with no hijab, that changing it helped a lot of ladies to become a coach and give them time to study and travel all around the world. And to see the difference now after we go out from Arab, now we go to the Asian and thinking to go to USA and see there also. [breaking] that barrier [opened our eyes] and gave you time to be a coach, be, at least even, in management, or a manager to the sport and it became from the local. It’s not necessary to bring someone from outside if they give them a good education, good travel, and good awareness related to sports.

 

 

Reiche [00:12:45 – 00:12:58]

So you have been all your life an athlete, you are now a referee. You’re operating a sports academy. What has basketball meant for your life, and how did it help you in general and your professional development?

 

Saleh [00:13:00 – 00:13:46]

Basketball.. It’s not only the basketball, the kind of the sport that I was doing also. The sports gives me a time of seeing the aging, and understanding the people, different category, different nations, different people who’s doing the sport, even if they’re young, if you started in being young until you grown up, you see that you can talk to sport. Thank God, even when I get married to my husband, he has a Master in Martial Art and a Doctor in Mental Sport. That’s helped me now to improve myself and go higher to community sport. Now I’m dealing with the people. It’s not only the Olympic. Sport give me a time to study also the people and prepare my PhD related to sport and disease, and how we can be with the sport and helping the sport community.

 

Reiche [00:13:48 – 00:14:02]

So, finally, Qatar is hosting the 2027 Men’s Basketball World Cup. What legacy do you hope the tournament would have for the country, but also for women’s basketball?

 

Saleh [00:14:05 – 00:14:26]

I hope to see our ladies still playing basketball and doing well in World Cup, this is the first thing. Second thing I wanted to see also all my friends become a referee even in Table or on the ground. And see one of the ladies, five on five, who can whistle in World Cup related to five-on-five basketball.

 

Reiche [00:14:27 – 00:15:04]

Yeah, that would be awesome. In the 2022 FIFA soccer World Cup, we also had for the first time women referees. So, let’s see whether we will also have female representation amongst referees in 2027. Thank you, Amal, very much for talking to me And I think this is very, very important that FIBA lifted the hijab ban and the sport of basketball finally became more inclusive and makes it easier now for everyone to play basketball.

 

Saleh [00:15:05 – 00:15:12]

Thank you, Professor Danyel to have an opportunity to talk about the ban because it was a long time, and we’re happy now.

[END OF THE VLOG]